Time-based Instructions

INTRODUCTION

ASSIGNED TASK

The main objective of ‘Time-based Instructions/Project №3’ is to create an effective instructional video based on one of the specific tasks we were given. This assignment requires us to not only have a comprehensive understanding of the task itself in order to break it down to its basic/necessary steps to the point it could be easily understood through the visual cues of a video alone but also understand the inherent visual elements that make a video effective/ineffective.

Task Given: Hemming a pair of pants or a skirt (by hand)

Hemming, which is defined as the action of ‘turn(ing) under and sew(ing) the edge of a piece of cloth of clothing’, is a garment ‘finishing’ method. This has various different applications, including:

1. Decorative/embellishment
2. To decrease the length of an article of clothing for a better fit
3. To prevent seams from unraveling (highly dependent on the type of fabric)

[A hemstitch (hem-stitch) is classified as decorative drawn threadwork (a type of ‘counted thread embroidery based on removing threads’) and/or openwork (producing decoration by creating holes) hand-sewing technique.] ←Use this! Not the slip stitch!!

When learning how to hem, I looked at the following resources & analyzed them:

Video #1: ‘Bad’ Example

VIDEO BREAKDOWN (HEMMING PART + INTRODUCTION ONLY)

WAS THIS VIDEO EFFECTIVE? Overall, not really. While it would do ‘in a pinch’, I found the inconsistent and shaky camera work to be distracting. Any good qualities of the video, such as going out of one’s way to ensure actual clarity using different colored thread + decent lighting are somewhat negated.

Some KEY NOTES:

1. The introduction here did not feel appropriate to me because I found it to be an inefficient use of time. As a viewer of the video, I did not particularly care to sit down and hear them explain what hemming is; while this may vary from person to person, this raises a good question on how much contextual information the viewers have. Generally, people who seek out hemming tutorials know what hemming is, and will not necessarily enjoy or need a long introduction.
2. Distracting objects, no matter how ‘appropriate’ (i.e., the pincushion) makes it difficult to focus on the task at hand. I had a hard time paying attention to the actual hand sewing, simply because the pincushion was in the way so much.
3. The video was too long. While the repetitive motion of multiple stitches helps with understanding, I felt like it was unnecessary in this case. (Maybe it’s better to focus on doing one correctly rather than multiple?)

I found the following two videos much more effective in terms of actual instruction. Here are the common factors they had that I found to be positive/that worked in their favor:

1. Clear & professional video quality. This is important because it ensures that nothing actively detracts from the video quality.
2. Consistent Lighting. This also helps to make skin look like ‘skin’. I hadn’t considered this in the previous ‘bad’ example, but when the lighting is awful, I had a harder time registering that a hand was in fact, a hand. This made the overall processing time longer, and thus the video less effective.
3. Smooth Motions. Something I hadn’t previously considered was that smooth & confident motions add significantly to the overall understanding and readability of the video. It detracts the focus away from the person, and onto the motions themselves. Sharp/amateur motions not only detract from the credibility of the video, but
4. Linear progression. The essential steps made sense — even when watched without audio.

From this, I created these preliminary steps for creating a hemstitch (using a slip stitch method for sewing) for exploring:

1. Lay down your piece of fabric flat on an even surface. If you are hemming pants or a skirt, make sure the side seams lay flat at the sides rather than overlapping each other. When running your hands over the fabric, there shouldn’t be any ‘bumps’ created by seam edges.
2. Turn the piece of fabric inside out, and mark the new hem ‘line’ where you want your piece of fabric to end. If you’re hemming pants for the sake of making the legs shorter, for example, this should be the new ‘adjusted’ length of your pant legs. Consider using a piece of chalk & ruler to make sure this is uniform along the length/circumference of the subject. You may also need to cut the fabric, but leave approximately a 1-inch leeway to fold/turn inwards at the edge.
3. Thread your needle. Pull the string through the eye of the needle and tie a knot so that the string cannot be tugged off. Don’t tie it too many times — it’ll be harder to pull the needle through the fabric later on if you do.
4. Fold the fabric to the new hemline, and use pins to secure it in place. The pins should push through the two layers of fabric overlapping each other.
5. Iron the hemline (optional?) Ironing the hemline will make it easier to keep your stitches even later on as you sew, and give the new hemline a much cleaner appearance later on. However, you should probably look into the type of fabric you have before you consider ironing it.
6. Push the thread through the hem allowance fold, and tie a knot behind the allowance. You should not able to see the knot, as the overlapping fabric hides it. Pull the thread all the way through, and the knot should prevent the thread from slipping out.
7. From behind the hem allowance fold and onto the actual fabric itself, grab one-two threads to loop your needle through. When done correctly, this should effectively ‘pull’ the hem fold and the fabric together.
8. Repeat steps 6–7, moving left/right (depending on the direction of your sewing/dominant hand) by 5mm or so each time. Pull your thread through each time until it is tight, but not to the point of scrunching up the fabric. When flipping your fabric back to show the outside face, there should not be any of the thread visible, and the hemline should ideally appear uniform and pressed flat without bumps/creases/folds.
9. Once you’ve reached the end of the length/circumference, tie off the thread and loop it repeatedly through the hem allowance before snipping the thread and hiding it behind the fold. Additionally, check that the stitches aren’t too loose/too tight before you do.

EXPERIMENTAL ATTEMPTS AT HEMMING

Following these steps, I made the following attempts by myself in a casual exploration of the task.

Attempt #1

attempt #1

Things I found Difficult Initially

1. I did not have an iron with me while I attempted this, so the new hemline clearly appears very uneven/bumpy because it refused to lay flat. After talking to a few of my classmates, I also realized that the type of fabric definitely matters — all of my stitches were clearly visible from the other side.
2. I had a lot of trouble picking up only 1–2 threads at a time since I was using nylon (very plasticky, almost sheer) type of fabric for this preliminary test.
3. Despite drawing a line in, I still had a difficult time keeping the stitches in an uniform line. This implies that there may be additional measures/steps I need to add in order to make this tutorial completely beginner-friendly, such as additional lines/markings on the actual hem allowance, the use of more pins/clips/stabilizers, etc.

Attempt #2

Things I found Different (?)

1. While I kept the same type/piece of fabric I was experimenting on, I pressed the fabric under a heavy stack of textbooks for a while along the designated hemline and I found it to produce a much better result. As seen in the second photo, the hemline is actually pressed flat and uniform. The crease also helped me stitch in a more even line.
2. I dropped each additional stitch much closer together than I did previously, which also helped me to stitch in a line without curving up and down excessively. However, it looked pretty janky every few stitches.
3. I also considered creating dots along the length of the fabric to signify how far apart each stitch should be, but that may end up being inconvenient and time-consuming than actually helpful in the end.

NATURE OF THE TASK — Still Frames

After my initial explorations through video, I looked to visual depictions of the task to further look for what makes a hemming explanation adequate or lacking.

http://yesterdaysthimble.com/tutorials/basic-hand-sewing/

This visual ‘tutorial’ online conveys certain aspects of the task particularly well. Seeing things depicted in a visual still-form also helps ensure that the visuals are not actively detracting away from the quality of the motions. For one, the clear distinction between the fabric, the hem allowance, the needle, and thread makes it immediately readable. This is something that should be taken into consideration when arranging the setup.

The zoom-in, while not directly applicable to the video, is still a good example of a clear visual depiction, as it remains easily understandable despite showing only a very small portion of the real thing. Keeping certain things consistent (position of the needle, thread, lighting, etc.) can eliminate the confusion associated with zooming in. (Seeing as in this case, zooming in is encouraged due to the small details = having to show the needle picking up a single thread.)

However:

1. The ‘A’ and ‘B’ by itself is not enough to clearly represent the motion of actually poking through the fabric. There is clearly not enough context, only a suggestion of a vague motion from one end to another.
2. threads coming from / going to ambiguous places is an issue. Hopefully, this issue can be resolved through video, where the thread can be physically seen being pulled from one end to another.

WATCHING VIDEOS IN CLASS

What makes a good video? What makes a bad video?

What makes an ineffective instructional video? Why?

1. Distracting elements. Something that really stuck with me was the song at the beginning of one of the bread tutorials. It felt out of place, and it definitely immediately made me anticipate the video to be of lower quality due to its seeming lack of awareness. The overall tone was simply inappropriate.
2. Lack of planning ahead. For ‘truing a bike’, it simply felt like the person did little to consider how to best structure the video and his process to aim for an acceptable degree of structure.
3. Low-Quality Audio. Applicable even with no narration: dumpster noises, birds, cars, etc. are all distracting and irrelevant elements. In a video, it is harder to for viewers to distinctively tune out background noises, as the dimensionality is limited. This means that there should be ONLY relevant and important audio — even nature noises can be obstructive, as they very well may come off as more aggressive than intended when condensed into a flat audio file.
4. Bad choice in screen content/framing. Something I’ve observed is that for tasks that focus on a very small or detailed portion of the task due to having to show something that requires very specific motions, there is generally an area of ‘focus’ and an area of ‘context’. For example, in the video ‘wheel truing’ shown in class, the person did a very good job focusing on showing the area of ‘focus’, but with little to no context:

A visual explanation of the area of focus WITHIN the area of context + the importance of showing context appropriately.

List of Criteria to Consider:

1. Believable perceived linear (or ‘readable’) progression. Seeing as the usage of voice narration and guidance is not allowed, the visuals should be able to stand by themselves. This means that jarring cuts, confusing/ambiguous framing, and ineffective transitions should be eliminated as much as possible. Relative time used for the task should also be considered. (Time skips may be necessary.)
2. Perceived proficiency. As stated previously, amateur or uncertain movements are not only distracting from the actual needlework but makes the video seem intrinsically less credible. Work on smooth and confident motions!
3. Consistency. Changes in lighting/atmosphere can severely affect colors and other important visual cues in the video.
4. Good choices in color & other visual cues. The goal is that even in a still frame, the viewers can still clearly understand what is going on. This can be accomplished through the deliberate use of key colors and so forth. Over-reliance on motions is not something I desire in my instructional video.
5. Enjoyment! The video shouldn’t make the audience want to switch to another video due to boredom, disgust, or any other negative emotion. The pacing, coloring, and motions should be enjoyable to watch and seem enjoyable to actually do. (In short, I should not seem like I am in Absolute Agony while completing the task.)

MCCLOUD ASSIGNED READING: BLOOD IN THE GUTTERS

the ‘maiming’ is implied between the white space of the two panels — the ‘gutter’. The transition, while drastic, it is still clear what has happened through the motions & implications the first panel gives.

• sensory perception & the outside world — how do we know what is real and what isn’t?
• gutters (space between panels) is used to transform images into continuous/fluid actions.
• in Writing About Literature, Art, and Culture, we talk about implied and intuitive understanding of what goes between the ‘gutters’ that separates one panel (one scene) from the next, and how that plays into the context of sequential art.

CREATING INSTRUCTIONS — STILL FRAMES

preliminary set of instructions

TAKING PHOTOS/BREAKING THE TASK DOWN INTO STEPS

For this step, I simply took photos as I worked, whenever I felt like they were necessary. This exercise was very much intuition-based, and I felt comfortable going back and forth to edit the content by either adding more photos during a part that I found confusing or taking out information where I felt like instructions could be implied.

WHAT NEEDS FURTHER CLARIFICATION?

These are some of the revisions/notes I put on my storyboard after class.

CLASS DISCUSSION — SHOWING SOMEONE ELSE HOW TO DO THE TASK

What did I learn from trying to teach someone else my task?

1. I found it pretty difficult to get instructions without being able to verbally express and point out what I was referring to, especially the hem allowance fold and the difference between that and the actual fabric. It was suggested to me that I figure out a way to visually distinguish the two.

What did I learn from trying to learn someone else’s task? (Origami)

1. There were some motions that I found harder to do than others (coordinating all the flaps to complete a complicated fold)
2. I had to re-orient myself to match the instructor, especially when the paper was a single color and not dual-sided like the most common origami paper.
3. Some steps that didn’t ask me to fold all the way (only to a certain angle) I took longer to process/understand than folds that went up to the edge of the paper.

CREATING A STORYBOARD + NOTES

• Where do I place the threading of the needle & thread so that it makes sense? At the beginning: why am I threading a needle? After I show the pants: where did the pants go? If I show it with the pants in the background, it doesn’t stand out as much/the pants become distracting. :(((
• Some actions took less time, but more photos. It was difficult to figure out how many photos I needed until the motions of the needle became clear, but I found other motions (like flipping the skirt/pants back over) to be fairly self-explanatory.

GROUP DISCUSSION — HEMMING & SHOELACES

A recurring theme in our group discussion was consideration of material, and the notion of inferring actions (i.e., filling in the ‘gaps’, much like the ‘blood in the gutters comic) and the idea of continuity. Additionally, for hemming, we stressed the importance of using a thread with a contrasting color, even if that would never be done in real life. Here are some of the things we discussed that I want to consider for my video:

1. Consideration of Material. This is reflected in our choice of colors & visual cues. For example, hemming with blue/black fabric makes it seem dark and ‘muddy’ — I think this is because in the video, it’s harder to get a sense of dimension and so the folds of the fabric tend to clump together. This decreases readability. Lighter fabrics should also not be textured or too busy (like mine).
2. “Magic Hands”. How much should our hands be involved in the process? Are they necessary for understanding or are they getting in the way? Especially for hemming, how much of the hand should take up the frame?
3. Action vs. Verification. When done right, hemming is invisible from the other side of the fabric. (11/01/19 edit: though ideally, some ways of hemming allow it to be invisible from both sides.) How do we show the viewer the effect of our actions?
4. Lighting is important. Shadows can make it harder to properly see what is happening on the screen. They can also be very distracting as visual elements. Sunny days tend to cast lots of shadows, so it’d be good to film with natural light on a more cloudy day.
5. Gloves/Hands. Consider wearing gloves in the video if your hands are distracting. (nail polish, etc.) however, this would have to be justified in some way.
6. Trust = simplicity. ‘Some of the storyboards are inherently more trustworthy than others”. This takes into consideration what information you want to, or need to know. Being excessive can really decrease credibility in a video. Another aspect of this is ‘guilt’ which I sort of interpreted to have to do a lot with orientation and the perspective the viewer takes.

WHY WERE WE PAIRED TOGETHER?

I considered why hemming was paired up with shoelaces, and I concluded that the repetitive action and the complexity of the action of shoelaces/thread going through different folds of fabric/cloth were comparable.

Important End Goals:

What do I want to accomplish? I spent some time considering the qualities I want my final iteration to have, and also work on how I can be a good judge for myself of how or why a set of instructions has merit, and whether or not I am teaching somebody rather than just showing them. Here are some of the things I considered:

1. Clear and concise written instructions can be created by the viewers from the wordless audio. These instructions should be seamless and rather simple; If someone is watching my video and they are able to explain & create relatively simple instructions based on what they’ve seen, they have, to some extent, learned the task, instead of only being shown the task.
   (Important Note: while it does make more sense to simply see if people can successfully replicate the task, I believe that from experience, hemming is a skill that requires some practice to get correct; hence, while it is ideal that viewers come out of this video being able to hem, asking them to do so may cause some pressure, which drawls the focus away from the quality of the tutorial itself. Written briefs or instructions are easy; in that way, it’ll be much more representative of how effective the instructions are for the average viewer.)
2. The video should be something I enjoy watching and making. This is a really important one; during my meeting, we talked about getting me to a place where I’m comfortable with my work and who I am. This, to me at least, means that I should be happy about the work I do. Now that I am conscious of all the qualities that make an instruction video not very efficient or enjoyable, I would like to avoid these pitfalls as much as possible. Successfully applying everything I know is something I really want to aim for in the end. Ideally, a sense of confidence and enjoyment should be conveyed through the video :)

REVISIONS + CREATING A VIDEO

After the review session, I began to focus on filming and translating actions from the storyboard (still photos/frames) to video. In one sense, this was easier because certain actions that I had to put into several frames (but I didn’t want to put in too many because of how it felt like it took too long to move from one image to the next while I was reading it) felt more fluid and smooth rather than too choppy or too long. However, the direction of the action & continuity became harder to maintain. After playing around, I created the following video:

SETUP:

PROS:

• The natural lighting at the time (9 am) was good.
• Aside from the donner dumpster trucks, it was quiet enough to hear all the details of the thread. Unfortunately, I was also breathing really loudly which is weird so I took it out of the video altogether :)

CONS:

• The angle is definitely more ‘showing’, rather than teaching. The hand motions are a bit difficult to decipher in perspective.
• breathing noises are SERIOUSLY weird.
• Blurry/bad aperture settings.

Basically, for this setup, I focused on getting my camera at an acceptable angle/position in order to film. I wanted to use aperture to hyper-focus on the details of the thread & fabric. However, this caused the hand to go out of focus pretty badly since I was too zoomed in.

WATCHING OTHER VIDEOS — RESPONSE:

NOTES: Proposed layout of my complete video based on the introduction & conclusion included in the other hemming videos I saw during class:

Physically show pants being too long when wearing them (tug upwards) (3–4 seconds) (one step-walk in)

put pants on the table, flip inside out (edit this to be instantaneous) (2–3 seconds)

zoom in on single pant leg (this shouldn’t be too big of a jump) (1–2 seconds)

pull out ruler, create a crease on where the new hemline should be (3–4 seconds)

Iron it (show briefly that it is now flat) (4–5 seconds)

hold up a needle (rely on aperture) (2–3 seconds)

thread the needle & thread and then tie it (7–8 seconds)

Begin hemming (use 1st person pov) (20 seconds)

Tie the stitch off, cut with scissors (6–7 seconds)

flip around to show verification (4–5 seconds)

pan across the series of stitches on the other side (2–3 seconds) (verification for actions)

briefly show tucking in both pant legs (2–3 seconds) (consistency, believability)

show person wearing hemmed pants (3 seconds) (one step-walk out)

profit

When doing this, I took special consideration in how much I personally believe each task personally requires in terms of screentime. For example, ironing takes a few minutes alone in real-time, especially if you’re ironing the whole pants + setting up. However, I don’t want the total time of ironing to exceed 2–3 seconds of the total video, as I didn’t want the action to seem disproportionately important in the grand scheme of the task.

Possible time range to include everything: 62–74

‘Tips’ & Reminders for myself:

1. Literally stick your pants down on the table using tape to prevent it from being overly shaky, wrinkled, or uncomfortable to watch.
2. Putting cardboard inside will help it keep its form while you work.
3. always shoot in with 1st person POV
4. using your fingers to gesture where to go → saves time through implied actions.

FEEDBACK ON MY VIDEO (note form)

hands are in the way

aperture is hard to control (shallow depth of field) too zoomed in, very blurry and confusing.

aesthetic =/= efficient

nice to see the fabric texture → really satisfying to see the texture/thread going through when camera quality is clear.

contrast = could use more in terms of color — everything is somewhat warm, consider using a cool color thread? (alternatively: warmer color thread that still stands out can help maintain overall coherence.)

Keep the wood or find a seamless.

Slow down some of the actions (HOW)

The fabric lifting up at the corners is distracting to watch.

CREATING A FULL VIDEO — ITERATION #1

For the full video, I made sure to focus on the narrative (or is context a better word?) aspect of the video, as I was definitely lacking in that area. When I began, I thought the biggest challenge would be getting everything cut down to a single minute, but it ended up being chronological order and the flow of movements from one cut to another that gave me the biggest challenge.

I focused on using the same feedback, this time filming during the afternoon instead. This is where I encountered the first issue with lighting, as it got darker and darker without me noticing, and eventually I had to set up a light halfway through.

FEEDBACK FROM HEMMING PEOPLE

• We mostly talked about the methods we used for hemming (just has to be invisible from the outside — also don’t point out your dimpling), and I got to look at different perspectives and how that helps/worsens your understanding. (“When I’m learning something that requires directional movements, I have to look at it from the first-person perspective. Like mirrored dance videos!”)

FEEDBACK FROM NON-HEMMING PEOPLE

• Funnily enough, most people who were assigned other tasks didn’t focus on where each pant leg came from or went in relation to the framing. Rather, they mostly pointed out issues with the hemming itself & what parts didn’t make sense to them. This makes sense, as hemming people would probably subconsciously fill in the blanks and not notice as many inconsistencies.

examples of super blurry photos + shadows and hands taking up too much of the screen

Certain things people pointed out:

1. It doesn’t make sense to push the pants upwards when you cut to a scene of the bottom of the pant leg.
2. When did you turn the pants inside out? It’s hard to understand.
3. Why did you point out the dimpling (good point — I was verifying something I probably shouldn’t verify)
4. visibility of thread is very good, you can tell you’re only supposed to pick up one or two threads.
5. The lighting feels kind of weird → warm on one side and cold on another?
6. It was unclear when I flipped the pants back over → this might not be necessary if you show the person wearing pants both at the beginning and at the end.
7. ‘Why are your hands huge I don’t like it’ …thanks.
8. ‘The silence is kind of weird’ …Ok.

After the review session, I realized I needed to focus less on minuscule details and focus on tackling some of the larger problems I’ve been essentially avoiding— like inconsistent lighting, shadows, and blurriness. Additionally, people sometimes found certain transitions inconsistent and difficult to understand, so I plan to work on that for my final iteration.

Additionally, some of the smaller details I want to/plan to change for my final:

• at least try filming in a more ‘controlled’ environment like a photography studio.
• Make your hands less of the overall frame — they sort of seem disproportionately large and distracting.
• Play with more angles a bit — there is room for more diversity/flexibility without getting confusing.
• add in ironing and unrolling thread — good examples of how noise can ‘ground’ the video — aka make it more real and believable in its context.

CREATING A FINAL VIDEO — ITERATION #2

In this final iteration, I chose to film downstairs instead. The lighting in the mornings (when the studio is quiet enough to really hear the thread/fabric noises) is often very inconsistent, even throughout a single clip. While it worked very well for my first video experimentation, the clips took a much shorter time to film. Additionally, I felt that there was a disconnect between potentially using a seamless for showing the final/initial product and then putting the pants on the table, which I initially wanted to be wood to maintain a certain atmosphere.

In the end, I decided to go with the seamless throughout as to not let it get in the way of the quality of instructions. Overall, the lighting was easier to maintain, and I set the aperture way lower so that the blurriness of the hands would not be an obstacle again.

Storyboard:

I created a visual storyboard just to keep track of all the scenes I needed to film & a rough idea of what I want in each individual frame just so I wouldn’t forget anything by accident. While I recognize why we didn’t use drawings for our initial storyboards, I wanted to have something to reference before I started filming, and this is just the easiest way I know how to :)

Setup:

RE-FILMING

A problem I encountered was how far away I was from the actual pant leg when I was hemming.

After checking my footage, I was disappointed to see that the new setup I used in the photography studio was not as clear as my first two video experimentations. For that reason, I ended up changing the angle of the tripod and re-filming a section of it so it would look better.

This showed me that even re-filming within the same hour could result in a difference in lighting/details that could be hard to replicate again, even in virtually the exact same environment. It definitely took me more time to get the lighting to resemble each other than actually getting the camera to focus.

FINAL VIDEO!

woohoo

REFLECTION

Overall, this project was really interesting. Like the other studio projects, I found myself not really expecting certain difficulties or barriers until I went ahead and physically did it.

For example, while I gave myself a decent amount of time to get accustomed to hemming itself, the actual filming process ended up being far harder. I often found myself in weird poses (like sticking my head through the legs of the tripod) in order to make it look easy and in the correct POV. As someone who watches a lot of ‘relaxing’ craft and baking videos on youtube during my free time, I found myself having a newfound appreciation for the people behind the camera since I’m finding that motions that look effortless are often the ones that require the most work.

Looking back on it now, the conversation about ‘shining a flashlight for someone without them knowing’ we had in Studio was very appropriate in describing how I often found myself needing to adjust or change certain ways of working so that the camera and tripod would capture footage to resemble how I actually work.

Additionally, being in control of your surroundings is very difficult — even when I was filming against a seamless in a relatively soundproof room, the number of times I had to rip out stitches and start over because I had accidentally left a pair of scissors in the frame and didn’t notice is, unfortunately, a non-zero number :)

Overall, I’m satisfied with the approaches I took in this project. I felt appropriately paced throughout, and while I still found myself sometimes running off in too many directions at once, I found it easier to not hyper-focus on certain aspects and focus on the bigger picture — i.e., the direction the project is heading towards. Simply going with the flow of the task and problem-solve on the spot was something I tried to actively incorporate into my working process, and overall, the results & refinements I made throughout the different iterations all the way from when I was first taking photos is pretty significant.

I think something to consider for the next project is how new issues pop up as I try new things — leaving certain changes to deal with in the last iteration is not a good idea. I experience this during this project with sound, and how it ended up being choppier than I anticipated.

In the end, I enjoyed this project, and I think I’m making good progress on letting my projects develop naturally. There are definitely elements of my final product & process that brings me joy to think about — like little moments where the things I planned actually worked out better than I anticipated, and it’s great to be able to focus on them :)